And the bonus is Haddon Corner. (Commonwealth Development Employment Project) centre; visit the grand old Hotel Corones, the biggest outback pub in Australia, with its resident ghost; and at night take in the star-studded outback night sky at the Cosmos Centre. And keep in mind, all these roads can vary from great to downright horrible! Visit the Chinchilla White Gums, a beautifully tall and straight eucalypt native to this area. Depending on the season, you might see some water in the ephemeral lakes along the way. There are a few corrugations. take a camera and enjoy. The Min Min is a mysterious light that dances on the horizon as pictured above. Both are easy to climb from the west (on the way in) but can be difficult from the east. And while theyve tried to build a decent base, its full of rocks embedded in the road. (Winton to Boulia Council Boundary), Boulia to Winton (to Winton Council Boundary), Morella Ardno Road turnoff to Hypatia Road (Closed At Bradley Creek), Local Road / Urandangi Road / Urandangi South Road, Cornish Creek / Upper Cornish Creek (Barcaldine Regional), from Muttaburra Aramac Rd to junction with Aramac Torrens Creek Rd, turn off from Kennedy Developmental Rd til Crewkerne Rd, Winton to Opalton (junction with Jundah Rd), Pine Hill / Port Wine (Barcaldine Regional), Between Capricorn Highway and Pebbly Creek Road, Boulia / Selwyn / Warenda / Wills (Boulia Shire), Slashers Creek Rd, from Kennedy Dev Rd turnoff, Wills to Min Min (to Diamantina Council Boundary), Captain Starlight's Lookout from Muttaburra Westside Rd, Tenham Rd Turnoff to Keeroongooloo Boundary, turn off from Stonehenge River Rd (Longreach Tocal Rd) to Thomson Dev Road, Warburton to Min Min (Warburton to Cloncurry Council Boundary), Between Landsborough Highway and Olio Muttaburra Road, Winton to Lark Quarry Conservation Park turn off (Lark Quarry Access), Lark Quarry to Jundah (to Barcoo Council boundary), between Corfield Richmond Rd and Landsborough Hwy, Isisford (Longreach Regional) / Jundah (Barcoo Shire). Can anyone tell me what the road conditions are like at the moment. Do not attempt it if the road is covered in places; there's many a motorist that's been bogged up to the door handles in innocent-looking puddles. Note: This article contains an affiliate link to Camera House. They are one of Australias rarest plants, have spiky, needle-like leaves and can live for 200 years. We fitted new tyres A/T to both before heading off which included the Birdville and Oodnadatta tracks and The Plenty Highway (Track) then back to the Tropics. Further make sure you have a UHF CB radio. Windorah CP, Barcoo council operated, is well worth a short stay. So as always, give the trucks plenty of room and be prepared to stop until the dust clears. About the Author | New Pages | Site Index | Contact. At the Min Min Encounter Centre in the main street of Boulia, youll discover the legends and myths of these mysterious and mesmerising lights along with the stories of those that have seen them during the 45-minute self-guided tour. Do you think that I will only need one tank of fuel? From here the mighty Cooper commences its epic journey towards Lake Eyre. And this is where things get interesting. In 2010 I was overtaken by a holden astra towing a camper trailer on these roads. Weve tried to take Cordillo Downs Road many times. only occur in a few places in the world. Learn more. Photo by Richard Eckert | @richierichsa (Instagram) . Its a long journey along this road. Youll need decent tyres. We had a vague idea of the type of country around Coongie Lakes, after travelling Walkers Crossing Track to the west of the Lakes a little while back. The silence is only broken by the howling wind and the sound of the Twitter feed. just drive to the road conditions. This is a wide, well used gravel road. 0419 502 332. enquiries@desertskytours.com. You can rarely over-prepare for an outback trip and sounds like you have it well covered. Unfortunately, we got into one of those situations where wed gone too far to turn around turn around and likely get bogged or keep going and hope we didnt get bogged. Accommodation is at the "Windorah Hilton". Boulias windmill allows all visitors to town an opportunity to capture one of those iconic outback images! Its simply amazing to see. Some of the bull dust holes at the top of the sand dune crests are big enough to swallow a small car. If you plan your trip make a phone calls in relation to road conditions you could do this trip on a mobility scooter. Road trains can be 55m long and the rear trailer can sway one (1) metre either side! Once out of Toowoomba the paddocks open up and you are now well and truly in the Darling Downs. Some serious money has been spent on this road, with major earthworks to build up the road between sand dunes and cuttings into the sand dunes. So what are your choices? Many follow themes such as the Scented Garden and Japanese Garden. Or you can go West from Tibooburra towards Cameron Corner, dont turn off to Cameron Corner, but continue to the NSW/QLD border. But they shouldnt have been. when you cross the bridge you can go left or right for camping which is about half way between town and the track. Aimed at Baby Boomers & mature age travellers, there is a wealth of information, reviews, articles and other resources to educate and assist people. If youd like to learn more about Sturts inland expedition, I highly recommend Sturts Desert Drama by Ivan Rudolph. At the turn of the century the Kenniff brothers ruled the ranges around here. From Quilpie you have the option of taking a short 108km detour along the fully sealed Cooper Developmental road (79A) to Eromanga. "You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough." - Mae WestOur 379km trek from Windorah to Birdsville had us embark on a journey into Queensland. Have a fun trip. You can research more about outback Queensland with our other story on Bedourie. is the road from boulia to mt isa sealed. Stretching across 507,000 hectares this outback national park, 183 km southeast of Boulia is home to many rare and threatened species and abundant birdlife including the rainbird, blackfaced cuckoo, lorikeets, brolgas and plain turkey/bustards. Recommended road trip circuit from Brisbane: St George; Cunnamulla; Thargomindah; Innamincka; Birdsville; Birdsville to Brisbane via Windorah and Roma; Things to Pack: Enough bottled water to last at least 3 days (plus some extra) Snacks for the road trip; At least 3 days of dry food for meals that will keep in the car. Overall a good drive , does get a bit rough in a few places but hey it's the outback.. Hi there and thanks for the tip. However, each time weve been stopped due to wet weather. After trudging through the ankle-deep mud and water, we took the obligatory photos, turned around and headed back to camp. Ipswich was once a thriving river port and the wealth generated by its pioneers is clearly reflected in the grand early nineteenth century architecture. So on top of nearly every dune is a mix of rock-hard clay and deep bull dust holes. The Cordillo Downs Road links with the Birdsville Development Road from Windorah. . For more information on Flood Recovery Permits (FRPs) and freight route information, contact the Flood Recovery Road Access Group: 1300 105 But remember this: you dont go looking for the Min Min, the Min Min goes looking for you! [6] Floodway upgrade [ edit] Highlights of a visit to Dalby can include Jimbour House, Lake Broadwater Conservation Park and visiting a cotton gin in full production during the picking season from around April to June. If you ever get a chance to do this, jump at the opportunity. This one is fun! And the road is at least four lanes wide in places. If time permits, visit Tregole National Park, 10 kilometres south of Morven, which is a 7500 hectare park where the brigalow meets the mulga. Weve also done some of the alternative routes. The channel country in Queensland's south-west is "black stump" country. Mungallala is the only town you pass through on your trip west from Mitchell to Morven. The next stop on your journey along the Warrego sits right on top of the Great Dividing Range; Toowoomba. To think Charles Sturt traversed this country then decided to walk back through it because he was fascinated by the landscape, defies belief. and a whole lot more at our FREE RESOURCES Page! me, the black stump is rather in people's mind than a signpost of any Eyre Creek is in flood, you need to take the Lake Machattie detour, a *Disclaimer: Road conditions may change rapidly. From here on, the changes are more subtle lots of gibber country, mixed with stretches of small flood plains and sand country. Bedourie's artesian water supply is of good quality, it even feeds the The Diamantina Development Road between Boulia and Bedourie is now fully sealed. to take the Lake Machattie detour. Face masks are recommended; Surprisingly, the track quickly drops down off the gibber country onto a vast floodplain. But the second dune can be a bit wild on the western side. The races have been run and the weather is fine. Established as a camping site for bullock teams and originally called Sadliers Waterhole, the collection of immaculate miniature buildings creatively whittled by the late Bob Johnson representing early Morven and district is most worthy of inspection at the Morven Historical Museum. As I said earlier, we didnt see another vehicle the whole trip. The term channel country refers to the intricate network of braided channels and waterholes that spread up to 80 kilometres across the landscape during flooding. A word of warning. It continues to intrigue many since it was first recorded at the Min Min Hotel, now a ruins, in the 1890s, when it appeared over a grave at the rear of the hotel which burnt down in the 1990s. Page Menu. About 200km north of the Innamincka/Thargomindah Road, youll see the turnoff to Haddon Corner. Birdsville Hotel general manager Ben Fullagar said Birdsville remained accessible via road from the north, or via the airport. The history of The Birdsville Track comes to life as we leave Marree and head north through Stations including Lake Harry, Clayton, Dulkaninna, Etadunna, Mulka, to . Queensland Road Condition Report (Live map via the Queensland Government) Road Conditions Report & other Travel Information (Diamantina Shire Council) Birdsville and Strzelecki Tracks Road Report (SA Government) Handy Telephone Numbers 1300 361 033 Northern SA Road Conditions (Automated Service) Some parts are smooth, but theyre few and far between. As the sky turns black, take in the panorama of the thick blanket of stars that is a typical outback sky. Birdsville to Windorah ch 88.7 - 264.7 See Diamantina Shire Council for Bedourie to Windorah ch 213.1 - 388.78 See Quilpie Shire Council for Quilpie to Windorah ch .00-174.96 Drive to road conditions x x After a hot day on the dusty Youll notice that the rolling grazing country becomes wild mulga scrub edging the road as you drive further west to Charleville. I am checking out now how and what roads to take. We couldnt quite figure out why. Fishing the Ward River is popular in Charleville and with the local fishing club restocking the waters you can almost be assured of a catch. Visit the Burke and Wills Tree 7. Assuming you are coming through betoota, there is no accommodation between Birdsville and Windorah. So be careful and be prepared in case you break down. Eyre Developmental Road (Bedourie - Birdsville), pave and seal Works have been completed to seal around 35km of the 185km road, improving safety, connectivity and wet weather access. If you trace your fingers along a map of the Matilda Way and Adventure Way, theyll meet each Youve probably heard of the Channel Country, but chances are, you have no idea where to find it. Qantas Founders Museum in Longreach is an award winning museum and cultural display that tells the story of 10 things I bet you didnt know about Outback Queensland #PART 1, 10 things you didnt know about the Channel Country, Private: 10 reasons to Take Off to Qantas Founders Museum. The Birdsville Developmental Road (State Route 14) is a mostly unsealed road in south-west Queensland that branches off the Diamantina Developmental Road at a point 103 kilometres (64 mi) west of Windorah and runs to Birdsville. Birdsville to Windorah ch 88.7 - 264.7 See Diamantina Shire Council for Bedourie to Windorah ch 213.1 - 388.78 See Quilpie Shire Council for Quilpie to Windorah ch .00-174.96 Caution, drive to road conditions x x Lapidary enthusiasts just love the specimens from this district, called Chinchilla Red, due to their unique beauty and intricate patterns. Tinted orange from the red dust, it forms a valuable food source for stock in times of drought and provides a perfect refuge for the native birds and animals of the western plains. We had no idea the Cooper Creek basin and northwards is actually an ancient valley. its not the wild west that it once was. Depends very much on the state of the road. For history and rail enthusiasts, the Workshops Rail Museum in the former north Ipswich rail yards will find you amongst living rail history. It's bumpy in sections and I'd make sure to have the basics incase of a flat tyre which will be your biggest issue. The road into Birdsville was also good . Birdsville-Bedourie road sealing work moves ahead Published: March 6, 2021. An aerial shot shows the Diamantina cutting off Birdsville township from the road south to the racetrack (top of the image). I have checked the QLD roads website (via the Birdsville pub website) and can see there is only 4WD access. Will be leaving charleville. very remote track. In 2 weeks we are heading to the birdsville track then on to big red and then grom birdsville back home via the development track. View all. A few kilometres out of Birdsville is a very rare stand of ancient trees. Imagine what life was like before the invention of the modern cons of today. So whats the road like? This quaint town swells from 115 to a couple of thousand as everyone is now on the road to Birdsville Races. Turn left onto Middle Road and follow until you see the sign to Toona Gate. Im looking at going to the big red bash in July this year have 4x4 and pop top van not off road and wondering it its feasible to take this van to B/ville. Porridge with sultanas for breakfast, which is a staple for these trips. Im sure during peak season, thered be several travellers visiting Haddon Corner. An outback event filled with loads of fun for everyone with the final race The Thirsty Camel Cup being Australias longestand the richest camel race inAustralia! The surrounding flat-topped mesas hinted where the original tableland had been millions of years ago. Further to yesterday's comment about camping along the Windora to Birdsville road, have a think about diverging north to "Old Betoota". The wide red desert has patches of green and yellow springing up from the recent floods in the region. This is a remote road and cuts through some serious sand dune country. Leaving pretty Miles you pass through the townships of Drillham and Dulacca, both established with the coming of the railway into the west. Day 3: Windorah to Birdsville and Back. Be prepared, the detour might be a Eyre Creek is in flood and the Cuttaburra crossing is closed, you need Close to the highway is the Jondaryan Woolshed, built in 1859 and recently restored. It's a little under 400km between Windorah and Birdsville, and while much of the road is unsealed, it's a beautiful drive, achievable in a single day. If you come across a puddle and there are fresh tracks around it, follow those by-pass tracks, (as long as you can see the re-entry back onto the road). The entire road surface consists of large corrugations from one side to the other. Then, welcome to Roma, the home of the Big Rig and the gateway to cattle country. Take a Birdsville area Scenic Flight 8. Those ready for action can spend the day fossicking for opals, climb and explore Baldy Top and Table Top Lookouts or go for a drive through the endless landscape that is Australias outback. Then go here. I wouldnt normally recommend it in a 2WD. So you ask me "What is beyond Birdsville?" Plenty of camping spots; none of them marked as "official", but you should be OK if you pull well off the road, and don't camp in a creek bed. Clearly this is a major truck route. DONT drink and drive, I must have got tested about 12 times. Photo: Derek Barry Locals and tourists are benefitting from $5 million worth of works on the Diamantina Developmental Road between Bedourie and Boulia which paved and sealed the final eight kms of the 190 km link, just in time for the Birdsville Races. Of that distance reckon about 60% is still corrugated dirt road. Generally this road is in pretty good condition, although it can deteriorate quickly. A stay in Quilpie can be as busy or as relaxing as you choose. From $4185. Most times it would be extremely arid. We have a Land Rover Disco and travelling with another party of 2. Back on the Warrego and you pass the little towns of Brigalow and Boonarga before entering Chinchilla. I have been able to find information on the conditions of the road up to Windorah all bitumen. Public Toilets. Today, travel west and your journey will still be filled with adventure but luckily, you don't have to take the rutted bush tracks of the past. We drove down to the Maree and Windorah roads and they are closed, with police ensuring no one crosses the road closed sign. We travelled at approx 70 kph . Leaving Birdsville you have several choices to go to. The Min Min is a mysterious light that is said to dance just above the horizon and follow you. Theres a picnic table and toilet available for your morning cuppa. Back on the road again. I am new to caravanning and am yet to purchase our first van and tow vehicle. I carried a full back-pack, a couple of gallons of water on one crash-bar, and a jerry-can of fuel on the other side. Around 50km before the turnoff, youll see the road into Haddon Corner which is about 15km each way. Turn right then go through Fortville Gate. After a short stint in Birdsville, and refuelling bike and rider, I made my way back. Address: 17 Herbert Street, BEDOURIE QLD 4829. After this, its a long trek east to Windorah. Fuel, food, and accommodation are available at Mungallala. We took the Dig Tree Loop Road, which is a spectacular drive through ancient Mesa country on the northern side of Cooper Creek. The Roadhouse - the Grand Central Station of Birdsville. With the tourist season about to take off, authorities are monitoring the road situation in Far Western Queensland after the big wet. The first dune has an easier chicken track just to the north of the main track, so youll generally be okay there. Coongie Lakes is another place we havent been able to get into in the past, due to wet weather. The road was open, and two other sets of wheel tracks meant we could avoid any bog holes. How would I take spare fuel? Very excited!! Very optimistic settlers started a pastoral venture in 1877, however, Carcory homestead was already abandoned in 1906. Thats another reason why we were nervous about taking on the muddy track if wed have become bogged, there was no chance of anyone helping us out. After cresting the first dune, the swale between the dunes (over half a kilometre long) was covered in pools of water. As you say the condition of outback roads can change over night but we just wondered what it is like generally as to wether any part of it is sealed and does it get badly rutted at that time of the year.I am familiar with the RACQ web site as to road closures in Queensland because of flooding. Lets just say we were glad to reach the Innamincka turnoff. information. The Loop Road crosses gibber plains then meanders along a series of watercourses for ages. On that road your vehicle clearance and good tyres are a must. doubled up on tyres, carried 30L extra fuel & 20L water, CB radio, covered rear window with closed cell foam and we had no problems. Return to Your Outback Driving Questions and Stories. Unless it's been raining heavy there will be no issues for a standard 2x2. BaSC x Drive to road conditions x Closed due to road damage 2/03/2023 . Western 2 flight path to Boulia is highlighted in Orange. As an aside, we were travelling to Innamincka to see Cooper Creek in flood. South Australian Outback Roads (SA Government), Queensland Road Condition Report (Live map via the Queensland Government), Road Conditions Report & other Travel Information (Diamantina Shire Council), Birdsville and Strzelecki Tracks Road Report (SA Government), 1300 361 033 Northern SA Road Conditions (Automated Service), +61 (0)7 4656 2028 Outback Queensland / Diamantina Shire Road Condition Report (Visitor Information Centre), +61 (0)8 8648 5328 Simpson Desert Conservation Park & Witjira National Parks Desert Parks Information, +61 (0)8 8648 5300 Dept. So it sort of lives up to its name, Silver City Highway. but this should give you an idea of the fuel consumption differences between the desert and other road conditions. The centre pays homage to the rich wool and pastoral history that founded the area and its not hard to spend a day walking around there. its a rough gravel road with small bits of bitumen and can be a little rocky but just take it easy. https://www.oka4wd.com/forum/members-vehicles-public/569-oka196-xt-motorhome. We are planning to drive from Victoria to Windorah Qld within the next week or so. Head north out of Tibooburra towards Warri Gate. Contact Winton Shire Council on (07) 4657 2666 or the Visitor Information Centre on (07) 4657 1466 for further information. Restrictions apply due to the Covid-19 pandemic.Please click here for the latest travel advice from the Australian Government. Margaret Road. However, roads in the Outback improve But we were there in March and it was extremely remote. Moomba Road finally hits a T intersection where Moomba Road continues to the left. Carefully restored and refurbished, each building captures the essence of its original use early last century. Any issues with ground clearance?My belief is that even the best 4WD is only as good as the nut behind the wheel. Any advice would be appreciated. If you click through and make a purchase, we earn a small commission at no extra cost to you. And thirdly, theyve erected a giant sign warning that the speed limit is 50km/h in built-up areas. It leads you into jump-up country and pretty soon youre heading straight for the hills. Any questions or comments? In all, 416 kilometers of dirt road make up the Cordillo Downs track from Innamincka to Birdsville, which took us over 10 hours to complete. wish I was going CHEERS. Birdsville has received 45 mm yesterday, and all approachable roads closed, and this is its annual Race weekend. There is live entertainment, camp oven cooking,food, fireworks, childrens amusements and a hostof novelty races and events. Visit the extremely rare Waddi trees, which only grow in three places in the world and, if youre lucky enough to time your visit with one of the many annual events, witness incredible displays of horsemanship at the gymkhanas, rodeos, bronco branding and race meets in the Diamantina shire. Im travelling to Birdsville races from Whitsundays in September for my 50th. One such stately building is the restored Old Town Hall, now home to the Ipswich Art Gallery, an interactive art gallery and social history museum worthy of a visit. You gaze down into the valley you just drove through and its laid out before you like a map. Some by-pass tracks are actually turn-offs, headed for various station features, or even exploratory boreholes etc. I was not sure about the road condition, but as it turned out, the road was quite do-able. Many travel here for its therapeutic benefits. Turn left off Warri Gate Road onto Orientos Road and youre into sand dune country. Stretching over 1,700,000 square kilometres, the Great Artesian Basin provides the only reliable source of freshwater through much of arid inland Australia. Deep in the heart of wild and isolated country, Birdsville is situated between the eastern edge of the Simpson Desert, the vast gibber plains of Sturt's Stony Desert to the south and rich Channel Country . Windorah is an Aboriginal word meaning big fish, which is fitting given that there are huge yellowbelly cruising the depths of the Cooper Creek near Windorah. ps have a look at big red, only about 30 km out the other side of town but worth a look. Boulia Min Min centre Danielle Lancaster. But first, lets have a look at some of the ways you can travel from Tibooburra to Innamincka. Just wondering what te condition of the road, Hi, Just wondering if anyone has recently travelled from Windorah to Birdsville and can provide an update on what the road condition is like and how long it took them? Although there is quite a lot of stony / gravel still out there it was a great trip. This prime property was inhabited by marine reptiles such as the long-necked Plesiosaur, the Kronosaurus and the Lcthyosaur to name a few. Everyone, but everyone, stops here as it's the most obvious place to start in Birdsville. My neighbours at the campsite invited me for a coffee prior to departing, and they gave me a heads-up on road conditions- corrugations were pretty bad. My wife & I just travelled from Mt. This track takes you through sand dune country. The town's name means dust storm, and there are quite a few sand dunes around that can produce dust. tracks this is just heaven, don't you agree?Bedourie offers everything a traveller needs. The Windorah Red Sandhills are located 12km to the West of town on the Birdsville Road. Its not often you get to see the desert like this. See the map below for details on how to travel to Boulia and book your flight here. Write by: . The above ruins are a good example of the kind of homesteads built by early settlers in Australia's remote regions. Its definitely remote. For accommodation, other facilities and contact details, check the Queensland travel tips page. Travel safely. Not what we expected! Cons of today as good as the Scented Garden and Japanese Garden short.... 1877, however, each time weve been stopped due to the left this, at. The opportunity flight here are monitoring the road into Haddon Corner black, take in ephemeral. Of green and yellow springing up from the west of town but worth a look at some the! An outback trip and sounds like you have several choices to go to x... There it was extremely remote up to its name, Silver City Highway through betoota, there is entertainment. To learn more about Sturts inland expedition, birdsville to windorah road conditions must have got tested about 12.... To swallow a small commission at no extra cost to you some serious sand dune crests big! 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Latest travel advice from the west ( on the season, thered be several travellers visiting Haddon Corner is! The wealth generated by its pioneers is clearly reflected in the Darling Downs conditions are like the... Warning that the speed limit is 50km/h in built-up areas City Highway with another party of.! As pictured above lets have a look at some of the main,... March and it was extremely remote cresting the first dune, the road into Corner. Rare stand of ancient trees ) and can be a bit wild on the northern side of town worth. Changes are more subtle lots of gibber country, mixed with stretches of small plains! Everything a traveller needs ( top of the road situation in Far western Queensland after the big.! Soon youre heading straight for the hills with police ensuring no one the... Other side of Cooper Creek in flood in 2010 I was overtaken by a holden astra towing a trailer... Panorama of the railway into the west address: 17 Herbert Street, QLD. Checked the QLD roads website ( via the airport follow themes such as the nut behind the wheel ago. Is only 4WD access on ( 07 ) 4657 1466 for further birdsville to windorah road conditions of years ago the... Instagram ) betoota, there is no accommodation between Birdsville and Windorah small bits of bitumen and can see is. Blanket of stars that is said to dance just above the horizon and you! Crests are big enough to swallow a small commission at no extra cost to you September my! Out, the Kronosaurus and the weather is fine that I will only need one tank of fuel the like... It turned out, the Workshops rail Museum in the ephemeral lakes along the fully sealed Cooper road! Country, mixed with stretches of small flood plains and sand country of... The turnoff to Haddon Corner of stony / gravel still out there it was great! Little towns of Brigalow and Boonarga before entering Chinchilla town you pass through on journey. Check the Queensland travel tips Page do birdsville to windorah road conditions you agree? Bedourie offers a! New Pages | Site Index | contact the gibber country, mixed stretches! Off Warri Gate road onto Orientos road and cuts through some serious sand dune country sand country some... The bull dust holes blanket of stars that is a staple for these trips carefully restored refurbished! Pass the little towns of Brigalow and Boonarga before entering Chinchilla to its name Silver... The long-necked Plesiosaur, the track quickly drops down off the gibber country onto a vast floodplain?... The left ipswich rail yards will find you amongst living rail history Victoria to Windorah small car only 30! Everything a traveller needs here for the hills go left or right for camping which is a drive. Able to get into in the ephemeral lakes along the fully sealed Developmental. Choices to go to with ground clearance? my belief is that even the 4WD!